Episode 60 Mastering SEO and Analytics for Doula Marketing with Expert Darcy Sauers

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:00:03]:
Hello, Doula Darcy.

Darcy Sauers [00:00:06]:
Hello. Hello to both of you. I'm excited.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:00:10]:
Do you realize that you're one of the few people who've been on our podcast twice?

Darcy Sauers [00:00:14]:
I— oh, no, true.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:00:18]:
I think it's you and Ann Grauer. Who else has been on twice?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:00:22]:
I think just Ann Grauer. Ann Grauer is a three-peat, so you're going to have to ramp it up a little, but you are number two.

Darcy Sauers [00:00:28]:
Okay, I will add that to my goals.

Hillary [00:00:32]:
No pressure.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:00:34]:
Well, and one of the reasons is, Darcy, you do a really good job of explaining some business aspects to people who are doing birth work in a way that they really understand, because you have that unique ability to do it because you've been both a business person and a doula in a way that, you know, most of us are accidental business people. And I think you became the accidental doula and then figured out you came away from the dark side over to us and brought all that lovely knowledge with you. Is that a good description?

Darcy Sauers [00:01:03]:
And that's the best description I've ever heard of my career. So that's how we—

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:01:08]:
give it to me.

Hillary [00:01:10]:
Um, I don't know if Robin knows this. I got to eat dinner with you at the, at our Donut Conference. This was a year ago.

Darcy Sauers [00:01:19]:
I know. I can't even believe that was already a year ago, but that was really special. I, well, and I got to see both of you at that Donut Conference in person. And I, I don't know if you ever, if this story ever made it back to Robin, but I told you, Hillary, when I met you finally for that, at that conference, my very first DONA conference was in Boston, and I think it must have been 2010. I was a brand new baby doula, and I used to, back then, We would go on Twitter for hashtag doula party that Robin led. And I ate those up. I was, I was reading, I would follow the tweets and I just thought this was so cool to like connect with doulas online. And I will never forget being in the conference room in Boston and somebody was like, there goes Robin Elise Weiss.

Darcy Sauers [00:02:15]:
I was like, she's famous on Twitter. And I didn't even have the guts to go up to her.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:02:23]:
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that because mostly I enjoy meeting people that I know from online. It's the people part I struggle with. If I know you, it's easier.

Darcy Sauers [00:02:34]:
So yeah, yeah, well, it's just I think of it all the time because now people come up to me at conferences or like, oh my God, you're famous! And I'm like, no.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:02:45]:
And I'm like, but you know, I'm just Darcy.

Darcy Sauers [00:02:48]:
I'm just— I always say I just post on social media a lot. That's Right.

Hillary [00:02:53]:
And then you follow that up with, and you should too. Let's talk about it.

Darcy Sauers [00:02:55]:
And you should too. You, right. You should be famous in your own community.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:03:00]:
Mm-hmm.

Hillary [00:03:00]:
So, so Darcy, I have to start by saying, I know that we agreed on this topic, but before we even get going, I wanna say, so we're gonna talk about some marketing analytics.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:03:13]:
Mm-hmm.

Hillary [00:03:14]:
And I'm imagining like a lot of people, And I will fully admit I am a little overwhelmed by the idea of analytics, right? So I'm hoping that we can have a layered discussion, as Robin would say, like talking about the, the entrée to looking at analytics without the overwhelm, because I know that's one of your things generally is like take the overwhelm out of it.

Darcy Sauers [00:03:43]:
So absolutely. And I'm laughing because when you asked me to come on to the Birth Geeks podcast another time, I was like, what could I possibly— like, I don't know how to geek out over the evidence about birth. Like, I just don't. And there's not— and I'm solely a postpartum doula, so there's not even a lot of evidence about postpartum. So I'm like, what the heck? So I got all excited. Oh, I could geek out about marketing analytics. That's what I can bring to the Birth Geek podcast. But You will be fine.

Darcy Sauers [00:04:15]:
I have, as Robin said, I, one of my superpowers is just like making, I can't find the words to think of how to say this, but to make things easier and drill down. So we are going to keep it very top level and you might think you don't have any marketing analytics, but the, what we'll, I'll talk about today, you You definitely have. So, okay, good.

Hillary [00:04:43]:
Cause I did just, so I just launched a new website, which we talked about earlier on, um, the podcast and, um, you know, I got my, my Google thingamajigger put on there. So I now have some Google Analytics to look at. Tell me, Robin, what's the actual word? Sorry, I forgot. It's not the thingamajigger.

Darcy Sauers [00:05:02]:
Google Analytics?

Hillary [00:05:03]:
Oh yeah, that. Yeah. But there's a thing that you put on your website that, oh, Like your pixel?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:09]:
Pixel?

Darcy Sauers [00:05:10]:
Yes.

Hillary [00:05:10]:
Thank you. Y'all see, listen, I know I'm—

Darcy Sauers [00:05:14]:
I have a PhD.

Hillary [00:05:15]:
I don't know all the things. I like know what I know. It's okay.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:19]:
Well, it's like we talk about healthcare literacy. You can be really smart and still not have healthcare literacy. You can be really smart and not have tech literacy. And the tech is so differentiated right now. Like you, you went directly to Google Analytics and honestly, like, I really— my first thing was looking at your insights on Instagram. So I'm going to ask the question a little bit differently.

Hillary [00:05:43]:
Wait, you're going to ask an actual question? Cool.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:45]:
Thanks. I'm going to ask an actual question. Darcy, when you're just getting started as a doula and you're feeling overwhelmed with all the things and you've stumbled in backwards into the business part of this, which, you know, as a doula trainer will tell you, and probably this too, right? This is— this is people like, oh crap, I have to run a business now. What am I going to do? If you had to say, like, a thing or two to someone who's brand new, what kind of analytics would you talk about? And, and let's define analytics before we just keep throwing around this word like everybody knows what we're talking about. Like, what would your definition of analytics be, and what would you tell someone who's brand new they need to track first?

Darcy Sauers [00:06:28]:
Great question. I kind of think of analytics in this way as the evidence. And I always say, we're doulas, we need— we're, we're all about evidence-based information. And when you're new, I see this all the time, doulas say, oh, no one hires me because I don't have any experience yet. Like, I haven't been to a birth yet, so no one, no one wants to hire me. And I'll say, well, let's look at— let's analyze the data. Let's look at the evidence. Has anyone actually ever said to you they're not going to hire you because you haven't been to a birth yet? And usually the doula says no.

Darcy Sauers [00:07:13]:
And I said, oh, so I, one thing I talk, so this was the first thing on my list, the very first analytics that you should be looking at, every doula should be looking at, and I have added this to my intake form is How did you hear about me? And you, you need no tech for this. You can be writing this on a piece of paper, but every phone call inquiry, website inquiry that you get that you talk to them or email back, ask how they heard about you. And then that is evidence that you can use. So yes, if you have 10 interviews and 10 people say, oh, we're not going to hire you because you don't have any experience, that's good data that you can act on. But more often than not, the, the issue is you're not going on 10 interviews because no one knows you exist. So that's the, so you want to take action on the fact that no one knows you exist, not the story you're telling yourself in your head that you're not good enough to be someone's doula yet. Because you haven't been paid to go to a birth. So that's the first marketing analytic that everybody starts— needs to start today to start tracking so that you're moving forward, making decisions based on evidence and not what you think.

Darcy Sauers [00:08:46]:
So when you're tracking, You know, are people contacting you because they heard about you from another doula? You know, keep a list of actual people that are referring you. Or are people saying they found you on Instagram? Or is it they Googled and your website came up? That's what, that's the most important analytic because then you know what's working and what's not working. And who to send a thank you note to if they're referring clients to you and what part of your marketing, really what part of your doula business you can double down on. If Instagram is sending you new clients every month, like keep posting on Instagram. If you've been posting on TikTok for a year and not one person tells you on their interview that they saw you on TikTok, maybe, you know, that's your, your permission, your evidence that you can let TikTok go and double down on what is working. So that is analytic number 1.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:09:59]:
Well, and I know you and I have said this, but I know both of us have said this. Um, and this is a two-parter. One, social media has to be social. Right? It can't be one way. It's not push. You don't just keep putting stuff out. And the other thing is, stop talking to other doulas. They are not your target market.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:10:19]:
It's great, and you get that dopamine when all the other doulas are like, yeah, high five, like, to go. But if it's not reaching your market, then you are wasting your time.

Darcy Sauers [00:10:31]:
Yeah, that's another good analytic to look at. Like, when you're posting, are your comments or your likes all from other doulas, or are they from the pregnant people in your community, like that's really great evidence to know and to look at so that you can change that, fix that going forward.

Hillary [00:10:52]:
And I, I think so many doulas fixate on like that number, right, of views so much. And it's more about quality, right? Like you're saying, Darcy, like who are the people that are there showing up, um, in your space and interacting with your content?

Darcy Sauers [00:11:08]:
Yes. And also low numbers are fine. You know, you— I hear all the time like, oh, I post on social media, but I only, you know, only 30 people see my post. That is 30 people. You, you know, you don't need, um, 70 people a month to hire you. You need like 2.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:11:28]:
So how many births, how many families can you care for in a period?

Darcy Sauers [00:11:35]:
So, and I, I mean, I feel like the conversation always comes around to this. That when I, you know, I worked in marketing before for 10 years before I became a doula, and that was in the '90s and early 2000s, and the internet didn't really exist. So if you were a small business owner, if you were a doula, you had to pay to put an ad in the newspaper. You had to buy time on a local radio station. You had to buy local cable ads and pay someone to make a TV ad. Like you had to spend lots of money. To, and to get 30 people to hear your message, you had to do a lot. But now to be able to post on Facebook or Instagram and have 30 people see your message in 5 seconds, that's amazing.

Darcy Sauers [00:12:23]:
So stop chasing that you want to go viral or you need thousands of views. You, you just need a handful.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:12:33]:
Right.

Darcy Sauers [00:12:34]:
Those are people. Just remember, like, those views are, are people.

Hillary [00:12:37]:
And I think understanding the purpose, right? Yes. That's the big part. Because sure, I mean, there, if you're wanting to be an influencer, right?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:12:47]:
Sure.

Hillary [00:12:48]:
But if your goal in posting on social media and interacting is to get more clients and people to understand what you're doing in your community.

Darcy Sauers [00:12:56]:
Yeah. And it's really a gold mine for doulas. As Robin said, like, social media was created We have to remember what social media was created for. It was to be social. And everybody wants to know the latest algorithm hack and, you know, those are always changing. But what never changes is that Mark Zuckerberg, Instagram and Facebook will always reward you for being social. And that's great news for doulas because we get hired when we make an honest to goodness authentic connection with someone. No one's going to hire us from reading about us.

Darcy Sauers [00:13:37]:
They're going to hire us cuz they see our picture. They're going to hire us cuz they see us talking on social media. They get a sense of our energy, they get a sense of our personality, and that's when a doula gets hired. So if you look at social media as creating conversations, And you know, when you post on social media, if you don't look at it as like a, a task that you have to do, and you look at it as a chance to make a connection with your next potential client, a chance to start a conversation with someone who might hire you, it gets more fun and it's very effective for doulas and it's free.

Hillary [00:14:19]:
Yeah, I, I will say, so a couple things about social media, the, that I, I worry about as a business owner. Is number one, I don't really own it.

Darcy Sauers [00:14:30]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:14:31]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:14:32]:
And so I tend to lean very much more heavily in investing on my, like my website and things that I specifically own. How do you— so I think that's probably why I really jumped to that Google Pixel because I personally, professionally in my business, I get a lot from SEO. Um, and having that good SEO in my business, um, and having a good website for people to, to jump into. How do you advise people to, you know, strike that balance?

Darcy Sauers [00:15:06]:
Is there—

Hillary [00:15:07]:
oh, sorry, what that was.

Darcy Sauers [00:15:09]:
No, I was just gonna say, this is why you are such good podcast host, because you're reading my mind. That's number 2 on my list of marketing analytics to pay attention to is your SEO, your search engine optimization. Which is ultimately means how your website ranks on Google searches. If you're, if someone in your community Googles doula near me and your website is the one of the top 3 answers that shows up, you don't have to post on social media constantly. You get to just receive those leads from Google and that, I mean, that is worth a lot. So what you can do, and so it's hard to Google yourself because Google knows you've already been to your website. So if you can ask the other people in your house that have computers or phones that you didn't make your own website on to Google doula near me or doula in Tucson, you know, whatever city that you live in. And then look at that data.

Darcy Sauers [00:16:19]:
Look at— ask them to show you if they live with you what comes up. Ask your friends to do those same two Google searches, doula in your city and doula near me if they're in your city. Ask them to send you a screenshot of the results. That is really important data to know and evidence. Is my website ranking high in Google searches or is it back on page 10. I mean, even if it's on page 2, even if it's, you know, number 10 result, that no one's going to go to your website from that. So you want to, that's, so if you do this research, look at that evidence and you find your website isn't coming up, that is somewhere to focus your efforts on improving your SEO. Um, so that's a really great analytic to look at.

Darcy Sauers [00:17:18]:
And like you said, that's such a good point. You own that, that, you know, Instagram could go dark tomorrow and you can't communicate.

Hillary [00:17:30]:
I've had, I've actually had two different people who were like fairly viral-ish on TikTok and Instagram. Be deactivated.

Darcy Sauers [00:17:40]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:17:41]:
And just, it's gone. And they hadn't looked at their— they hadn't done anything else. Like, that was their primary mode of everything. And this was— these were not doulas, for the record.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:17:52]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:17:52]:
But, but, um, they were counting on that.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:17:56]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:17:56]:
And I was like, you don't own that. They can do that.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:01]:
I think something to point out is that I certainly, particularly in the last couple of months, I've gotten these messages really from Facebook, not from fake people at Facebook saying like, we removed that. It goes against our community standards. Right. And what did it like? Do you remember when chicken breast used to be the thing on AOL? You couldn't say chicken breast because it had the word breast in it. So you had chicken boob recipes, right? Like, yeah, I feel like sometimes, like, and it doesn't even tell me what I said. I'm like, I can't even learn from it because I'm like, I'm not sure what I did.

Darcy Sauers [00:18:33]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:34]:
And I, like, the few times I've tried to do Google Ads, it's such a pain because none of the photos I use, like, everyone is literally wearing, like, necklines up to their chin, and they're still like, shows too much skin.

Hillary [00:18:48]:
Right?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:48]:
Like, because you might have a baby in there. So it's like, you can't even— even if you do put something up, it could be censored. We've all seen images that is like warning graphic. And I don't know, that might actually help because people are like, oh, what's under there? Yeah.

Darcy Sauers [00:19:05]:
What's that?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:19:06]:
But, you know, we don't have control over that. And I think that is a big thing. We do control our website. I love that you mentioned that.

Darcy Sauers [00:19:13]:
And our email list. So that's why it's so important to get your potential client's email because—

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:19:22]:
and send them in a list, not just a random— right? This is not one you put on a piece of paper, even if it's a Google Sheet. Sorry. Right.

Darcy Sauers [00:19:31]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:19:32]:
Well, and you can do that with the easy, like when you're talking about free, right? So you can very easily have an intake that automatically dumps their emails into like into a spreadsheet for you to have to then, you know, like that, that's possible. That's not something I use in my business anymore. Um, cause I've been doing this a while, but you know, Um, I, I, that's possible, but when you're getting started at least.

Darcy Sauers [00:20:00]:
But again, that's another thing that's on my intake form, so I remember to ask them if I don't already have it, like, what is your email? I need to get that right away so that you can always contact them. I mean, this was, I don't remember when it was, it was over a year ago now, but there was the day that like Facebook and Instagram just were down for the day. And a lot of people who, that's how they communicate with their business were stuck.

Hillary [00:20:29]:
So yeah, I don't know how the teenagers survived, frankly.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:20:33]:
Sorry. You don't know how the teenagers survived if Facebook was down. I've got a little thing to explain to you.

Hillary [00:20:40]:
Instagram. Come on now. If Snapchat went down, that's the whole other story.

Darcy Sauers [00:20:44]:
Oh yeah. That would be. That would be so mad.

Hillary [00:20:48]:
I mean, I will say, I want to interject and say, I do worry about, um, TikTok a little bit just because of the legislation that's been coming down and, and like what kind of regulations and things like that are like that. That's cause I'm a worrier though.

Darcy Sauers [00:21:04]:
Well, but those are legitimate concerns and that, so I don't put a lot of effort into TikTok, but, uh, the other thing is. TikTok's just not as great for reaching a local audience. Instagram is so much easier and better. TikTok's just designed to have people watch videos till their eyes are crossing.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:21:35]:
Yes.

Hillary [00:21:37]:
Um, so what are, what is there on Instagram then that we need to be focusing on when it comes to analytics?

Darcy Sauers [00:21:44]:
So when you go to your, uh, your own profile on Instagram, hopefully you have created a business account for your doula business. So when you're on your profile, there's like a gray box underneath your bio that says Professional Dashboard, and that is what you want to look at. And it shows you accounts reached, accounts engaged, and that's all great. But the key one to click on is content you shared under the insights. And this shows you all your posts and how many people viewed it. And so you can change it. You can look at your content over the last 30 days, the last week, the last year, the last 2 years. And then you can filter it by, um, by, um, accounts engaged, accounts reached, and shares.

Darcy Sauers [00:22:54]:
Um, so whatever you want to look at. So accounts reached is how many people saw the post. Accounts engaged means how many people liked or commented on it. So this is really good to dive into. And by dive into, I mean, just kind of look at it and you can see, so it shows you what your most popular posts, and it's great to look at a long period of time, like over the last 6 months, what were your most popular posts and you can. See themes. And like, don't— I will preface this all by saying sometimes it makes no sense. I mean, I have— if I look at my— if I look at my analytics of all time, I mean, all I do on Doula Darcy Instagram is talk about doulas and business and marketing, except for the one time I was skiing with my friends and it was beautiful and I put some trending audio of us all skiing down the mountain.

Darcy Sauers [00:24:01]:
That has like a million views. That's my best post ever, and it has nothing to do with—

Hillary [00:24:08]:
so, but that makes me happy because I, I have to ask, so Darcy, have you read Outrage Machine? Did you read that book yet?

Darcy Sauers [00:24:15]:
No.

Hillary [00:24:16]:
Okay, so that's my, my reading suggestion for you. It's by Tobias Rose Stockwell, um, it's called Outrage Machine, and it's basically talking about The summary, the like one sentence summary is how the algorithms reward like outrageous content, right?

Darcy Sauers [00:24:35]:
Yes.

Hillary [00:24:36]:
And, and things that make people angry. And so they like, right. So and make people outraged. So I love hearing that you skiing with your friends like some like peaceful, like, oh, and like I wasn't making anyone mad. No, exactly. Like Because we know like that some of, some of the algorithms and things like of social media that, I mean, that's not what we want to do. I mean, I do a little bit want, as a doula, want to make people outraged, right?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:25:10]:
Disruptor doula, right?

Darcy Sauers [00:25:13]:
I was like, yeah, your name.

Hillary [00:25:16]:
Well, but I think making— there's a way to be a positive disruptor versus a negative disruptor, right? So sure, am I angry about maternal mortality and obstetric racism and obstetric violence, sure. But like, how can— instead of just complaining about it and talking about the, like, crap, like what I don't like— how can we make it better? What kind of solutions are there?

Darcy Sauers [00:25:40]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:25:42]:
Um, anyway, so yes, outrage, yeah, sure.

Darcy Sauers [00:25:45]:
But, uh, but also, I mean, I don't like to look at it that way. I like to look at it like the— I mean, it's true, that is true, but Also, the algorithm rewards, like, feeling good. Like, people— we, we come to social media when we need a dopamine hit. Like, we— when I would say we come to social media when we're bored and we're looking for a little pick-me-up, right? So for some people, that's to get angry. But as doulas, we could, you know, if our content is like oxytocin-inducing. You know, we could— people love that. I have, um, a couple people I follow on Instagram, and I, I realize, like, I go onto Instagram and it's like I, I need their, like, beautiful nature photos that they post. Like, that's what I'm going on to seek out.

Darcy Sauers [00:26:45]:
So maybe you'll, you know, you can look at creating your content as Let me make it feel good, you know. No one— I mean, and I mean, I'm all for posting content about being mad about the maternal mortality rate, but if that's all you're posting, yeah, you're gonna burn yourself out. You're gonna burn your followers out. Like, no one wants that. Um, I do have it.

Hillary [00:27:12]:
Oh, I, I just want to say, I have a friend who does like a trending audio thing. That's like part of her newsletter or whatever.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:27:21]:
Oh yeah.

Hillary [00:27:22]:
Um, but I do the one setting I really appreciated learning about was putting it on the entrepreneur setting so that I could have access to all the different, um, audios because I was getting blocked as a professional before I had put it on the entrepreneur setting in Instagram. So shout out to Katie Gabel. Really helpful.

Darcy Sauers [00:27:44]:
So when you're looking back to your analytics on Instagram, um, at your content and what has done well, here are some things to look at and consider. I am willing to bet that your posts that have done better have a picture of you in them and are not Canva graphics that you probably worked really hard on. Instagram loves your face and rewards you for putting your face out there, which we all cringe when we hear that. But, but again, as doulas, that's what's also going to get us hired. Not looking beautiful, but showing up as your authentic self, recording some videos, talking about life and birth and doula work. Um, so that's really good evidence to know and analytics to look at and realize that selfies do better than Canva graphics. More often.

Hillary [00:28:52]:
It's so true. And even like those stock images, like it, it's so better to that authentic self.

Darcy Sauers [00:28:59]:
Yes.

Hillary [00:28:59]:
And, and absolutely as a doula, like People have to have that connection, that click. We talk about that when we talk about interviews all the time.

Darcy Sauers [00:29:06]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:29:07]:
They're not going to invite you into that personal space.

Darcy Sauers [00:29:10]:
Right. I always say like, they're, you know, if you're pregnant for the first time, what you're really thinking when you're interviewing a doula is like, this person's going to see me naked. This lady's going to see my vagina. So is she cool?

Hillary [00:29:25]:
Or, or in postpartum, right? They're going to see my nipples. Like, I'm going to be so vulnerable.

Darcy Sauers [00:29:29]:
They're going to see my nipples. They're going to come into my house. It's going to be a mess because it's just a home birth. From the hospital. So I don't want someone that looks perfect and has a perfectly coiffed outfit and hairdo and lipstick. Like, I mean, if that's authentically who you are, great. But you know, you want— if you put your authentic self out there on Instagram, you're— that's going to mean you're going to get hired by people who are naturally attracted to your authentic self, which is going to make your doula interactions better, which is going to make your reviews better, which is going to make you hired more. So It always cracks me up because I will spend a lot of time sometimes making a reel or a post with some really nitty-gritty marketing.

Darcy Sauers [00:30:15]:
You know, I'll pour all this effort and time into sharing like some marketing tactics and then I'll go, you know, half thinking, snap a photo of— I mean, I snapped a photo of, um, I just don't like breakfast food and I sometimes eat dinner for breakfast. That was one of my most popular posts of me having steak for breakfast. It got all these comments like, I do that too. Like, and people still mention it and it's just so funny. And I'm like, but did you see the reel I made about marketing? You know, 5 marketing tips you need to know. No, no, nobody saw that. Okay.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:31:00]:
I did this last week. You know, it's like I set this goal for myself. I'm going to post this many reels per week. And then sometimes I'm like, oh, it's the end of the week. I'm out of time. I have to like— I'm keeping this promise to myself. I'm going to make a reel. And I literally— I was sitting here, I grabbed my little wisps, and I brushed my teeth for 5 seconds in a video.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:31:21]:
I saw that one. Yeah, I mean, it was totally dumb, like me literally brushing my teeth. My mom told me brushing my teeth was important. I did not realize it meant for the algorithm, right? And literally it's just me brushing my teeth at 10 speed.

Darcy Sauers [00:31:34]:
Like, okay, but I saw that and I was like, why is Robin brushing her teeth? Like, what's this about?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:31:41]:
You read the caption because you want to know.

Darcy Sauers [00:31:43]:
I read the caption. Well, I also was like, what are those little things? Like, it wasn't a regular toothbrush. I was also interested in what it was that you were using.

Hillary [00:31:53]:
Robin travels a lot.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:31:55]:
So, right, like, it was on brand. It was on target. It made you read the caption. And it was— and I literally spent 10 seconds thinking about that. And I got way more interaction with that video than I do, like you're saying, with the ones that I'm like 6 hours and grueling over everything and making it perfect. And so it's not a fluke. That's really what is rewarded in the system. And that's what we— and that's helpful content for our people.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:32:23]:
And when they see that content, then more people are going to see the one that we spent 6 hours, like, right, working on. This still has good info. It's just hopefully, well, you know, 3 more people other than, you know, then they wouldn't have seen it if they didn't see brushing your teeth first. So brush your teeth on the internet. It works.

Hillary [00:32:43]:
I love that.

Darcy Sauers [00:32:44]:
Or do something— what, in that case, do something that's stops the scroll. Like, that was, you know, you're scrolling along and you're like, what? Why is this lady brushing her teeth? Or, you know, so, um, the— I think the good news is that you can make content in 10 seconds that is effective. So, so looking at your analytics on Instagram, but also you, you just kind of also get a sense, like, what are the posts that get a lot of comments? What are the posts that people mention when they see you? And oh my gosh, do more of those.

Hillary [00:33:26]:
I want to know, Darcy, what are the posts that people mention when they see me? They're like, oh my gosh, the famous Doula Darcy. Like, what are the posts that they mentioned to you?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:33:36]:
Did you have steak for breakfast? Obviously.

Hillary [00:33:38]:
Yeah, that one, right?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:33:39]:
Yeah.

Darcy Sauers [00:33:40]:
Like, well, as Doula Darcy, I get a lot of like, oh, you were at the beach, or you, you met Robyn and Hillary at the conference. Like, you must be important. And, well, I mean, we talked about this before we started recording. I get people that are like, oh my God, the Doula Darcy, you're famous. And I'm like, I'm not famous. I just post on social media a lot. And the same goes for my doula business, my in-person postpartum doula business. When I started in 2010, like, Instagram wasn't even around.

Darcy Sauers [00:34:18]:
I was on Facebook a lot, and I was like a legend in the community. I remember once I went to buy flowers at the downtown flower shop, and I didn't have my, uh, license with me, and she was like, well, I need to see your credit card to match— I mean, I need to see your license to match the signature on your credit card. And I'm like, I don't have my license with me. I walked here. And, uh, She said, well, actually, are you Dover Doula? And I said, yeah. And she said, I recognize you from social media. You're fine.

Hillary [00:34:51]:
You're fine. You're fine.

Darcy Sauers [00:34:52]:
So, I mean, it's not even a matter of, uh, of course I'm blanking of actual posts people mentioned, but they, um, here's one. Free. Marketing tip for my postpartum doula business. I took a picture of my bed and said, don't you love waking up from a nap to find that your doula has made your bed and the baby's settled and da da da da. That is one that I had people weeks and months later say, oh my God, that post you did about taking a nap or, you know.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:34]:
Like that.

Darcy Sauers [00:35:36]:
It had an effect and people remembered it. So the bottom line is make people feel something. Anger, joy, you know, evoke a feeling. A feeling. Yes.

Hillary [00:35:50]:
That's lovely.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:51]:
Curiosity is one of them.

Hillary [00:35:53]:
Yeah.

Darcy Sauers [00:35:54]:
Oh, right. Why is Robin brushing her teeth? Like, I need to click on that. I need to know.

Hillary [00:35:59]:
Well, I hope you—

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:36:01]:
what is in my doula bag, right? What does a postpartum doula wear, right? Think things that might have. What is Doula Darcy reading? Right? What does Hillary recommend? Like, when you're thinking about these things, what kind of questions do people have? Then that is something that using those Instagram analytics, you can go back and see what were the questions that were popular, right? And then switch them up. And if it was popular here, ask that question in a story a month later. Nobody remembers. Everyone's like, oh my gosh, reuse content. I'm like, yes, please.

Darcy Sauers [00:36:37]:
Oh my gosh.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:36:38]:
Not as many people as you think saw it, saw it.

Darcy Sauers [00:36:40]:
Like, I always say that no one is watching you as closely as you think. I reuse content all the time and, you know, use a new photo, change the order of the sentences, which, you know, but it's really effective. Um, the other, the last analytics I was going to share that people should look at is those Google Analytics. Of your website and you do not, I mean, you could get a master's degree in analyzing Google Analytics, but just looking at the top level, two things, where the traffic is coming from to your website. You can see, you know, is it Google searches? Is it Pinterest? Is it Instagram? Is it an article in your local newspaper? Like you can see that. And then the other thing is which pages of your website people are finding. So for instance, for my local doula business, I found that most, there was a time where I could see people were Googling postpartum doula in Dover and getting to my website. But just as many people— I used to teach prenatal yoga.

Darcy Sauers [00:38:02]:
Just as many people were Googling prenatal yoga near me and coming to my page on my website about my prenatal yoga class. So that was really good information for me to have, really good evidence, because I went back to that page and made sure at the bottom it was like, click here to learn more about my postpartum doula services, click here to follow me on Facebook. You know, I could enhance that page that I knew a lot of people were finding me. So maybe you have, so if you're blogging, that's really good information to know which blogs are the most effective. And then, you know, like, okay, write more on that topic or do some social media on that topic or reverse engineer that. What are the topics doing well on Instagram? Write a blog and put that on your website.

Hillary [00:38:55]:
Yeah, I was just gonna interject and say I get a ton of traffic on some blog posts that I write, and then I actually end up sharing them in like parent groups a lot of times. Yes, I wrote one that's all about the induction discussion. I literally share that at least once a week. Yeah, because people are always asking about inductions, or, um, and I also like to write about local things um, local resources, because that's what we do as doulas, right? We help people connect with other resources.

Darcy Sauers [00:39:27]:
And so then that kind of, you know, well, and that exactly, that's what you want to be blogging about. I mean, a blog about induction is great, but you could be, and it's, I mean, super effective to share it in local mom groups, but you could also get a lot of traffic from all over the world of people Googling induction, which is fine, but if you're writing blogs about local topics, then you're going to bring in the local families that will actually hire you. So, um, exactly.

Hillary [00:40:00]:
And that goes back to that, like, huge numbers versus, like, actual people that you could interact with.

Darcy Sauers [00:40:07]:
Right. I think that's another good point about when you're looking at your analytics and you see, like, oh, 2 people read this blog post versus 4 on this one. That's still really awesome. That's 4 people.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:40:21]:
And part of your analytics, and we've mentioned this a couple different ways, and one of the things that particularly thinking about marketing, and one of the things that I tell all new doulas is like, have a heavy thank you campaign. I send a thank you note every Friday. It has built my business in a way that people don't understand. Right. I've talked to you in a while, but hey, Darcy, thank you for being out there. I enjoyed having you on the podcast, right? Even if it's been 6 months, you are going to have that positive feeling when you open up that thank you note, right? Oh, Robin was thinking of me today, right? And you say something genuine, like, don't force it. You know, hey, thank you for doing that thing you did for the community. I'm really glad that you're a lactation person here.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:41:04]:
I love knowing that I can refer people to you. Like, using things like Small Business Saturday, maybe you're not doing a giveaway. It's not about reducing your fees or giving something away for free. It's a chance for you to connect people with those other people, like you were saying, Hillary. And And so I love to track, A, who I've sent a thank you note. I have a huge spreadsheet of all the thank you notes I've sent. And I'm a dork. I'm a geek.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:41:29]:
I'm a birthday geek. And then I want to also— I keep track of who sends me people, who do I send people. I don't want to keep giving business cards to someone who's never giving them away. That takes my time. Kind of to your first thing about where did you hear about me? How are you not hearing about me? Where am I putting my time that it's not working? And sometimes you have to give it a little bit. Sometimes you have to give it a little bit of time. Right. You can't be like, oh, I've been there a month and that didn't work.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:42:04]:
No. Long game.

Darcy Sauers [00:42:06]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:42:06]:
You need to be wild.

Darcy Sauers [00:42:08]:
Absolutely. And yeah, that's a huge thing. Back to, like you were saying about how did you hear about me? Do the same thing. If, if somebody says Doula Jane referred me, yeah, I handwrite a thank you note to Doula Jane for sure. Um, and I actually just told this story on my podcast. I— there was one year— so I, I am a geek about this too, Robin. I, um, keep a spreadsheet of who, how people heard about me, because I think it just, uh, Hillary's saying she doesn't. I just, I, I think it's probably— well, it's, it's really good information to have, and it, I think it stems from my marketing and advertising days.

Darcy Sauers [00:43:00]:
Like, when you're spending a million dollars of a client's money on a TV and radio, like, you have to track the analytics.

Hillary [00:43:08]:
ROI, absolutely.

Darcy Sauers [00:43:11]:
Yeah. So, but there was one year this doula in my area had referred me so many clients. So I was like, let's go to dinner. And you know, like this, we've graduated from an, I can't send you another handwritten thank you note. Like, let's, this is worth going out to dinner. And yeah, to your point, Robin, you know, those rack cards I hung at the natural food store, like no one has ever mention that in 5 years. Like, I'm not going to drive around town doing that anymore.

Hillary [00:43:41]:
So yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:43:43]:
Oh, I know those rack card things are not as— I, I just, I went to look this year alone. Like, what I've tracked is I have 356 lines of data, like lots of things in that line, but 356 lines of data. Um, yeah, for this year. Just talking about, like, how people found me.

Hillary [00:44:08]:
Okay, but for all you newbies out there, please do not be overwhelmed.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:44:13]:
Right. Start with one piece.

Hillary [00:44:16]:
Start with one bit.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:44:17]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:44:17]:
Because how many years have you been a doula, Robin?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:44:20]:
Well, I do this on the yearly, right? So that's the important thing is you need to be able to sort that data, but you have to start with the data. Open a document. And write how you found me and write something. And then when someone else puts something, put another number next to it, right? Like, it can be as simple as that. Google Sheets is free, right? Excel, like Numbers, whatever. Like, learn a little bit of there, but that would be super simple to do, um, because that's going to help you in the end.

Hillary [00:44:51]:
Yeah, Darcy can see which one of us is easily overwhelmed.

Darcy Sauers [00:44:55]:
Yes. It's me.

Hillary [00:44:58]:
It's me.

Darcy Sauers [00:45:01]:
But I mean, when you're first starting out, like, you— the most important thing is to ask that question. You can probably keep track of in your head your referral sources. Like, you don't have to have— Robin, did you have a spreadsheet? She's nodding. Your first year of business?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:45:21]:
Oh no, no, I didn't. Right. I mean, I backwards into this, right? And in fact, I probably didn't have a spreadsheet. I've been in business a lot longer than other people, and I didn't have other doulas. Like, yeah, like, there were no— right. There were no other people. And so I wound up having— I wound up having— I probably wouldn't say probably around year 8, I started thinking about I really need to think about where people are coming from. And that was because I was overwhelmed with how many people.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:45:58]:
And that's actually one of the reasons that I became a trainer was to train my backups because I couldn't do it myself. That data really showed me, like, I need help. And so as you're a baby doula and you're thinking, like, oh, it's going to help me find somebody, it is. But later, it's also, is it time to open an agency, or is it time to join a partnership, or is it time to be a trainer, like it can help you make that next business decision, not just finding that individual client. Right.

Darcy Sauers [00:46:27]:
And then you're making that decision based on evidence, not just a feeling, a feeling or a story you're making up in your head because you make up a lot of stories in your head. Oh, yes.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:46:39]:
And they are so compelling. You are such a good storyteller.

Darcy Sauers [00:46:43]:
Oh, yeah.

Hillary [00:46:44]:
Now you all sound like my therapist. Just saying.

Darcy Sauers [00:46:50]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:46:50]:
I also think it's funny that among the 3 of us, I'm the baby doula because, because Darcy, you're going on 15 years.

Darcy Sauers [00:46:59]:
Yeah.

Hillary [00:47:01]:
And Robin was my trainer, so I won't out her for how long she's been. And I've been a doula for 10 years, but most doulas burn out or stop practicing as a doula much sooner than that. We know, right? Which is around 3 years, 3 to 5 years.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:47:17]:
But if you run this like a business, you're not going to burn out.

Darcy Sauers [00:47:21]:
Agreed.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:47:23]:
And that is what I think— that is one of my favorite messages that Darcy sends, right? You can be really passionate about this and you don't have to be a business guru, but you have to have a business mindset. You have to have some thought process into it that's going to help you prevent that overwhelm, prevent that burnout, and then you're in it for the longevity. One, and then, oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Darcy Sauers [00:47:46]:
I was just gonna say that was, that's another analytics. It's not marketing analytics, but I think the key to that is what you charge, looking at your rate and looking at what goes into that rate. So as a doula, like. You're paying for your, um, doula membership, paying for your website, paying for the gas to get to all your prenatal meetings and, or all your shifts to, and to the hospital and tolls and, um, your liability insurance. And, you know, adding up all those expenses that you have to have as a business and making sure your rate covers that is the first step to not burning out. I think that's why a lot of doulas burn out. They're 3 years in. And they're not charging enough to cover their expenses and their time.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:48:47]:
Yeah.

Darcy Sauers [00:48:47]:
And then it's—

Hillary [00:48:49]:
I, I always explain that, Darcy, with, um, okay, once you cover your expenses, what's the number that's going to get you out of bed at 3 in the morning?

Darcy Sauers [00:48:59]:
I love that.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:02]:
And I tell everybody the fastest way to burn out is poverty, your own. Don't do it.

Darcy Sauers [00:49:08]:
Yeah, it's true. It's so true.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:12]:
So, Darcy, but would you rather— Darcy?

Hillary [00:49:16]:
Oh, I had one too. You go.

Darcy Sauers [00:49:19]:
I did.

Hillary [00:49:20]:
I know, but then you said— okay, but okay, we can do—

Darcy Sauers [00:49:24]:
hit me with both. This is like my favorite. You can do them both.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:26]:
Okay.

Hillary [00:49:27]:
All right, Robin, you first.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:29]:
Darcy, would you rather be able to spend an hour 1 hour totally focused on a single project or have a full day where every task gets done effortlessly?

Darcy Sauers [00:49:41]:
1 hour fully focused.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:43]:
I'm totally with you.

Hillary [00:49:45]:
Because then you could still nap.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:48]:
You and your nap.

Hillary [00:49:49]:
I do love naps.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:50]:
It's—

Darcy Sauers [00:49:50]:
I do too, Hillary. I like to take one all the time. Okay.

Hillary [00:49:56]:
So I love that you're getting a twofer because so, um, for the would you rather. Okay. So Darcy, this is in reference to, um, an interaction that I had with you on the Instagrams. Oh, you are, uh, from the Northeast, right? You're a New Englander?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:50:14]:
Yes.

Hillary [00:50:15]:
Okay, so would you rather Noah Khan or Ray LaMontagne? Oh, I mean to listen, like I don't know these gentlemen, you know what I'm saying?

Darcy Sauers [00:50:28]:
Uh, Noah Khan.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:50:30]:
Okay.

Darcy Sauers [00:50:32]:
I love Ray LaMontagne too, though.

Hillary [00:50:36]:
Same, by the way. And I'm not a New Englander, so—

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:50:41]:
and Robin has no idea who you're talking about. That's okay. I'm going to go back to my hole and brush my teeth.

Darcy Sauers [00:50:47]:
So, you know what is funny? I'm laughing because I was going to say Ray LaMontagne is so depressing. Not that Noah Kahn is particularly uplifting. They're both Really depressing, but I love both of their music.

Hillary [00:51:04]:
Um, I've been listening to Ray LaMontagne's new album recently.

Darcy Sauers [00:51:09]:
Oh yeah, so good stuff.

Hillary [00:51:11]:
Good stuff. Now you know who we're talking about, musicians at least, Robin.

Darcy Sauers [00:51:15]:
Yeah. So speaking of marketing, Noah Khan just did a like brand partnership with L.L. Bean.

Hillary [00:51:23]:
Of course he did.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:51:27]:
New Englander.

Darcy Sauers [00:51:27]:
I got that email and I was like, that is the most New England thing I've ever seen.

Hillary [00:51:30]:
I mean, he was raised on Little Light. Come on now.

Darcy Sauers [00:51:33]:
Yeah, and his boots and his flannel. So, you know, it's awesome.

Hillary [00:51:41]:
Um, Darcy, thank you for being, um, a repeat guest on The Birth Geeks. We always love talking to you.

Darcy Sauers [00:51:47]:
Well, thank you so much. I am honored. I am honored.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:51:52]:
Um, I love it.

Hillary [00:51:52]:
I hope we get to see each other. I hope we get to see each other in person again soon.

Darcy Sauers [00:51:56]:
Yes, I know. I can't wait. Well, I already have Dona in October 2025 in-person conference. Calendar. I can't wait.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:52:07]:
And the speaker, the speaker submission is open for everyone who's listening. If you wanna speak at a conference, apply now.

Hillary [00:52:13]:
Seattle.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:52:14]:
Yay. Yay.

Hillary [00:52:17]:
Thanks, Darcy.

Darcy Sauers [00:52:18]:
Thank you both.