Episode 8: Life on Call

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:00:00]:
Foreign. Hey, birth geeks. On this episode, we are going to talk about life on call. So doulas aren't the only people who are on call for their jobs and we talk about that. We also talk about things we do when we are in our day to day life when we're on call, things we don't do, impacts on our family, how to juggle being on call with other jobs and other fun stories like what not to leave in your car when you're on call. So thanks for listening. Hope you like it. Okay, we're recording.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:00:56]:
Hi, Robin.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:00:57]:
Hey, Hillary.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:00:59]:
How are you today?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:01:00]:
I'm good, thanks. How are you this morning?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:01:03]:
You know, I'm a morning person, so I'm great. I'm great.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:01:09]:
So I'm excited to have you here today because we're going to talk about one of the things I spend a lot of time trying to talk about in doula training.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:01:19]:
Okay.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:01:20]:
That is living life on call. Yes. So if you've been to my doula training, I have this activity called get your doula ducks in a row and I pass out little rubber ducks. And on the bottom of a rubber duck is a sentence that sort of sums up something you need to do or not do when you live life on call. And it's funny to watch everybody read those sentences and say, oh, like you can tell that's not the part of this work that they've thought about.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:01:51]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:01:52]:
Most of the time you're thinking about that moment that the baby is emerging or maybe the thick of labor or maybe some postpartum stuff. But when you're working as a doula, it's very rarely the life on call. And the truth of the matter is, as a doula, you are going to spend more of your time in the life on call status than at birth. Doesn't always feel like that at 3am but that is the truth of the matter.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:02:19]:
Right? Right. It's the least glamorous part of being a doula as well.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:02:23]:
I find it is the least glamorous. But at the same time, I think when you're new to life on call, it's a little bit fun to tell people, well, I'll be there if I'm not at a birth.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:02:36]:
Yes. I think there are T shirts. Right. I'm sure there are T shirts.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:02:39]:
Yes. Oh, there are T shirts and bumper stickers and. Yes. Right. Well.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:02:45]:
And that's not uniquely doula.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:02:46]:
Right.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:02:47]:
Like, I have Midway midwife friends who, I mean, they have the same issue.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:02:52]:
Absolutely. It totally is different. And the other Thing is, you may have some people who have birth professions, like being a lactation consultant where you live life on call for a weekend. Maybe you take call every other weekend where you have to go in and you do rounds on all of the people who gave birth in the last few days. And then maybe you're on call if they have a lactation emergency or something, that they need somebody to be seen immediately. And so life on call can look differently for different professions. And so I do want you to understand that no matter how you live life on call, this is going to be at least a little bit pertinent to your life.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:03:31]:
Absolutely. For the record, can I mention also my husband's in it and he is also on call. So I see a different side of it as well, not just birth professionals.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:03:46]:
Oh, that's really interesting. And the other thing is just thinking when you said that, I started thinking like, oh wow, a dual call family,

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:03:53]:
it can be rough.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:03:54]:
Yeah, I, you know, I am really blessed to have a husband who's not living life on call. And so in the moment my job comes first.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:04:04]:
Yeah, no, and sometimes it's like, oh, I'm, I'm not on call this weekend. Oh, but I am. Okay, well then you're in charge of xyz, so.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:04:14]:
Yeah.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:04:15]:
Good times.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:04:17]:
Well, and I think the thing that most people don't think about living life on call, when you're thinking about it theoretically, it becomes really easy to say, oh yeah, I'm going to be on call. That means that if I get a call, I'll just go and I'll just live life like I always do. And the truth of the matter is there's so many things that change about your day to day life when you're on call.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:04:41]:
Oh absolutely, absolutely.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:04:44]:
I mean one of the things that you will underestimate is going to be the number of times that you check your phone or check the volume or double check your messages.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:04:56]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:04:57]:
Check your email. Uh huh.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:05:00]:
Or you may actually even get paranoid if someone like every time your phone rings, like, oh, is it time? Is it time? Is it time to go?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:09]:
I know so many people who utilize different ringtones for their clients that they are on call for so that they can not get that surge of adrenaline every time the phone beeps or buzzes. So that could be one very helpful tip.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:05:25]:
Absolutely. And I know, I mean I know people who set their phone so that only their clients numbers will ring through in the night. I, despite the fact that I have an IT professional husband, have not figured that out.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:41]:
I figured it out, but it still scares me.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:05:44]:
Like I've done something wrong and maybe it won't work.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:48]:
I've blocked everybody and.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:05:50]:
Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:51]:
Or that feeling that when you've slept all night and you really anticipated that you'd get a call, that you wake up in that panic.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:05:58]:
Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:05:58]:
That half a second of, wow, I got a great night's sleep. How did I get a great night's sleep?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:06:05]:
Absolutely. I have definitely woken up many a morning and looked at my husband and he'll say, oh, you're still here. And then looked at my phone in a panic, like, did I miss something? Okay.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:06:16]:
Oh, shh.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:06:17]:
We're good.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:06:18]:
Well, so the interesting thing is, as somebody who has been a doula long enough that cell phones weren't a thing.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:06:26]:
Oh, geez.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:06:27]:
I know. So cell phones weren't a thing. When I first became a doula, I had a pager.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:06:33]:
Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:06:36]:
Yeah. You know, payphones, pagers. Walking up to the guest service station at Target and saying, hi, I just got a 911 page. I need to call somebody back.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:06:46]:
Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:06:47]:
We're trying to explain what I did and why I needed to use their phone. Yeah. So I didn't have to, but I. But the whole point is, like, I didn't have to worry about, did I miss it. And so then as texting became a thing and you text with your clients and you do quick check ins, it became very apparent to me that people might simply text me to say that they were in labor. So I actually have now a special called out spot on my contract that they must initial separately that says when they are in labor, they need to call me, not text me.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:07:25]:
Ditto. And I always mention it at my prenatal visits with them every time. Like, I don't care. It's in the contract. Fine. But I'm still going to mention it again and again because I don't want people to forget. Like, and I remind both partners, you if you want me, you have to call. I do not wake up to text messages, which I assume they want me since, you know, they hired me, but I don't know.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:07:53]:
Do you check? How often do you check in with your clients, though? Like when you're at home?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:07:59]:
I want to check in with some frequency, but not to the point where I feel like I'm one of the people who is annoying them. Haven't had that baby yet.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:08:10]:
Exactly.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:08:12]:
I don't think it's weird that somebody's made it to 38, 39, 40, or OMG. 41 weeks. And so I do try and check in, I try and do little bitty check ins. I usually try and email them if I they've had appointments, offer to talk to them or text them. But I have, I spent a couple bucks and bought this little app called mom emoji and it's got some cute little, cute little emojis that you can send and I'll put a link to it in the show notes. You've got the ability to change the racial diversity on the images and some of them are just little text things that are cute. So for example, there's a piece of fruit for all 40 weeks. And so if someone's 39 weeks, I might send them a little 39 week emoji and say congrats or, you know, happy 40th jackfruit.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:09:09]:
I mean, have you seen an actual jackfruit? Those things are enormous. So, yeah, I find that not very comforting.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:09:18]:
Well, but would a watermelon be any more comforting?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:09:21]:
Well, I've seen smaller watermelons. Maybe I'm just more familiar with that fruit. But neither here nor there. But first of all, so I looked at your mom emojis and I have to say I would absolutely be using those in my notes.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:09:33]:
I love the. They have one that is a. Looks like a doula and then they have one in a tub and some on a ball. They also have peri bottles and forceps. So I don't want you to think they're all. I mean, come on, if there is a cute set of forceps, this would be the cute four subs. But those are not ones that I send to people.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:09:54]:
So not two words I would use in the same sentence, cute.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:09:58]:
So if you look at these and think, oh my gosh, Robin uses these, I don't use all of them. There are over 100 emojis to use.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:10:06]:
Yeah, well, I, so I like to, when I'm checking in with my clients, I have a few, you know, scripted things that I'm, I use just to frame my language a little bit, you know. So I always talk about how, hey, you know, I know everybody's, you know, checking in with you right now. I don't want to be one of those people, that kind of thing. I have a few, a couple emails that I've written out one about specifically about reframing the end of pregnancy and talking about how, you know, you're not just waiting for the end, you're just, you can try to enjoy it and kind of thing.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:10:43]:
So I have something similar to that.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:10:46]:
Yeah. Closing Time. I link to the song Closing Time.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:10:51]:
So how do you what's your day look like when you are on call?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:11:01]:
Well, some of that depends, right? So if I'm on call and someone said, hey, my water just broke, it's going to look different than, you know, just a regular average on call day. But the very first most important thing is I absolutely prioritize rest.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:11:19]:
And so what does that look like for you?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:11:24]:
So I don't do anything super strenuous. I'm not going to go lift a bunch of try to set a PR and weightlifting or anything like that. I don't like to go to birth sore with sore muscles. I find sometimes I get sore while I'm there so I don't need that. And yet just resting. So resting to me is, you know, not doing super strenuous things. Not more like planning a lot of things like sitting and writing and reading and that kind of thing instead of doing super active like run around things with my kids. I don't know, what does that look like for you?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:12:05]:
So when you said prioritize rest, I actually thought about it in terms of naps and I'm not a napper. I feel crappy if I take a nap. So I've tried all those fancy apps that help you like wake up more gently. No, I am just a bear and feel awful for a couple of hours. So.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:12:25]:
Oh no, I'm a napper. I am a professional napper.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:12:30]:
So for me, prioritizing rest looks more like I'm a night owl. And I frequently have trouble getting to sleep late at night. And when I have, when I have kids that get off to school in the mornings or have to drive my husband to work, it makes it so that I can't sleep in. And I actually get my best sleep from about 6am to 10am, which is not very conducive to everyone else's life. So I really struggle with trying to get to bed. If I get to bed early, it's probably midnight and frequently it would be one or two if I didn't keep myself in check. And so I have to really work hard to not stay up late.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:13:15]:
Right. Well, early to bed for me is like 9 o' clock night between 9 and 10. But again, I'm an early riser, you know, it's not unusual for me to wake up on my own between 5 and 6. So circadian rhythms and all that fun stuff.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:13:33]:
Well, and I've tried a lot of the different things to, you know, varying degrees of success. So for example, I use a program called Flux on my computer that starts filtering light as the sun goes down and gets progressively darker just to take away some of that light in my eyes if I am working late at night, because I often feel most creative in those hours. And it's hard when you're in the flow to stop. Because I'm in flow, like I'm excited about what I'm doing. I also have tried binaural beats and doing some different things to help wind my brain down. Because it's my brain that my body often gives out well before my brain. So, you know, look at some of those things that might be helpful to you if getting, if prioritizing rest is something you want to do, but you're like me and struggle to do it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:14:25]:
Absolutely. So what do you not do in your day to day life?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:14:30]:
This was the hardest part for me because I don't do a lot of things. But I remember one time, specifically about an hour and a half from us, an IKEA opened. And I was super excited about that and I really wanted to go to Ikea. And it wasn't opening day because I also hate crowds, so it was not going to be that stupid. So I was going to go midweek, like the next week and I was on call and I just remember thinking like, oh, an hour and a half, that is really pushing it. So finally I just called the person that was on call and I said, hey, I want to go to ikea. Are you okay with that?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:15:12]:
Right?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:15:12]:
And I was super. She was super chill about it. She was like, yeah, if I send you a list, will you pick me stuff up? And I was like, certainly, I'm happy to provide that service to you as your doula. Absolutely. So, you know, I've learned from that experience sometimes just to ask, like again, I don't go out of town often, but you know, if I wanted to do something that might be a little bit more on the outskirts, I would just call and ask or I would get a heads up and say, you know, I'm going a little bit further than the immediate vicinity, you know, so I don't travel, you know, I'm not going on vacation, I'm not going to plan to spend the night away. So I have to think about that. And then if I do go someplace with my family, I drive separately, always.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:16:01]:
Yeah, I know. I've driven, you know, very. I've driven to my brother's house separately or to family gatherings separately, because I'm on call just in case.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:16:11]:
Well, so Can I tell you a funny story about driving separately? That did not work out in my favor.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:16:15]:
Oh, dear. Yes.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:16:16]:
You know, it worked out fine for the birthing person, but so my husband and I were planning to go to my mother in law's house and in the evening to celebrate Hanukkah. And so we had driven separately to work and I got a call to go to a birth. And so I go to the birth. I'm at the birth, I see a slew of text messages from the family. I had all the presents in the car, so my kids will still say, do you remember that one time? Yes. Took all the presents.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:16:53]:
Uh huh. I. I've taken softball bags in my car to places like oops. And my husband will drive to the hospital or wherever I am and get it out of my car. Yep.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:17:04]:
So if you drive separately, make sure you have keys to everybody's car and you might want to have, you know, you know. So driving separately is plan step one, and plan step two needs to be making sure that everybody has their seats, stuff out of your car.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:17:19]:
Absolutely. Well, and honestly, getting back to the travel a little bit, you know, like, I would love to come over and see you. You live about two hours from me. Well, that's kind of outside of my bubble as well, so.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:17:34]:
And there's nothing in between. We've checked.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:17:36]:
There's literally nothing other than a really fancy spa, which we may have to

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:17:42]:
do one day, but I'm totally down with that.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:17:45]:
Yes. Oh, me too. Trust me. But I think also other things I don't do, you know, I don't drink a ton of alcohol, at least in my opinion. I drink more than Robin does, but, you know, not. But when I'm on call, I don't drink excessively. I try not to drink excessively at all. But, you know, I may have a glass of wine with dinner, but I'm not going to have two, for example.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:11]:
Well, and I think part of that's cultural. Right. So I know that your family owns a winery, and so you probably have grown up where a glass of wine at dinner is a pretty standard affair.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:18:21]:
Yes, yes.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:23]:
And whereas we don't do that, so it would be strange for me to have a glass of wine with dinner.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:18:28]:
Can I also just point out that I'm so happy that I'm the anthropologist and I didn't point out culture this time.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:35]:
You're rubbing off on me, Hilary.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:18:37]:
I love it. I love it.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:18:39]:
Well, and I think, you know, I think it really varies. That's not to say that I've never been out with friends, and I'm thinking, oh, I would love a margarita. The difference is, because I don't drink frequently, a margarita would probably not be a good idea for me because I'm not. I don't. I don't have the same enzymes built up in my body to be able to tolerate that.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:18:59]:
So.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:19:00]:
So, yeah, So I do have to curtail the fact that if I'm at my favorite Mexican restaurant, I am not having a margarita.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:19:07]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:19:07]:
And that's okay. That's part of what I understand about living life on call.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:19:14]:
Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:19:15]:
No, I was just gonna say, I think that. I think that those are some of the things that you don't think about. You think, oh, yeah, of course, I wouldn't drink when I'm on call. But I think you don't think about all the instances in your life where somebody may offer you alcohol because you are usually either free to accept it or not. And the truth of the matter is, I've seen a lot of little memes going around this week talking about, you know, if people tell you they're not drinking, don't ask why. Don't push it on them. And that was really when I started realizing, you know, people would ask me, well, why aren't you drinking? And I. I didn't think about it at first because, well, I'm on call.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:19:53]:
Oh, okay. But why do I have to have a reason not to drink?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:19:58]:
Absolutely. Well, we could get into the whole culture of alcohol.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:20:03]:
I digress.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:20:04]:
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I lived Europe before, so that's a whole different ballgame with regards to alcohol, so. As well. So.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:20:13]:
Hey, geeks, we're taking a break to pay the bills.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:20:16]:
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Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:21:13]:
There's other cool stuff on our shop, too, so have a look around while you're there. The birth geeks, upgrading the conversation and helping you renew your professional moxie. That was an easy peasy lemon squeezy break. They're back now.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:21:30]:
Do you sleep well when you're on call?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:21:33]:
No. And I just. You know this, but I just got off a stint of being on call for almost six months straight. I know that exhaust.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:21:45]:
It's hard. It does. It does exhaust me.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:21:49]:
It exhausts me. And no, I don't sleep well. I don't feel comfortable taking anything to help me sleep. Sometimes I have a prescription for medication in case I don't sleep well, and I do not feel comfortable taking it because I sleep so hard when I take the medication. So when I'm on call, I don't take it. That's not good for my own personal health. For the record, I'm working on boundaries always. But, you know, I think that also, by the way, impacts my family because I'm a little grouchier.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:22:29]:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. I definitely minimized being on call and its effects on the family. I did not think about that. I. When I. Well, first of all, when I was a doula, in the beginning, I didn't have a family. Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:22:46]:
It was just my, you know, I mean, it was my husband. I didn't have children, so I didn't have to worry about children. And my husband could take care of himself and he could drive himself around and do all the things. He didn't need me for anything. It was nice to have me around, but it wasn't crucial. And so having children, you know, they were added to the mix. And I think so many people come to this work, no matter what your job is, sometimes after you've had children, and so that maybe you think about it sooner than I thought about it. So my children just grew up understanding.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:23:21]:
Sometimes mom disappears and then she comes back and there's a new baby in the world, Right? And so they grew up. If I missed a birthday, they were excited and say, oh, there's a new baby born on my birthday. Or if I missed a play, you know, they weren't super disappointed because they knew that was just sometimes mommy disappears. And so I think it would be harder to not start out in that culture in your family, to all of a sudden now your parent just disappears.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:23:55]:
Yeah, absolutely. But I think also it even extends beyond your immediate family. For me, personally, I had to ask. My husband is getting ready to go on another business Trip. And I have to have 24, seven. Well, 24 hours a day, child care set up. Right. For while he's gone.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:24:19]:
Yes.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:24:20]:
I, you know, I asked, you know, my mother to come and stay with me, and she was very understanding. But, like, I mean that again, that it impacts the rest of the family as well.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:24:32]:
Well, and I want to point out, not everybody has family.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:24:35]:
Exactly.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:24:37]:
So my husband and I don't have. Our parents have all passed away. Our closest relative is about an hour away. And so. And they have their own families with children and can't just drop everything and come help us. So we have never had that. Everything we've done has had to have been, you know, I've had to rely on my spouse or I've had to rely on friends or my backup doulas or.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:25:08]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:25:09]:
Fill in the blank.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:25:10]:
Or I've paid a retainer fee for a babysitter and then not ever use them. I've done that, too.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:25:16]:
So it's important to realize that no matter what your situation, there have been other people who have experienced it. So asking around, finding other birth professionals who maybe have a family situation that looks like yours and saying, you know, what do you do? Because the truth of the matter is you're going to have to be creative.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:25:36]:
Absolutely. Very creative sometimes.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:25:39]:
Now, see, I'm really lucky in that my husband is an amazing cook. My kids won't eat my food, so I never had to worry about that. But I know that some people, you know, their partner works really long hours or is not great in the kitchen. The kids aren't old enough to fend for themselves. And so those were all big doula milestones in my life when my kids could make themselves something to eat, not burn the house down. Like, I had a really short list, but pertinent list of things that they needed to be able to do. You know, being able to boil spaghetti and pour sauce on it absolutely was a step up from the sandwich. You know, PB&J and cereal and milk.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:26:25]:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. We actually have the. I'm sorry. I just remembered a kitchen gadget that we have. We have this thing called blue Fasta pasta, and it's, like, much smaller. They don't have to lift up a whole pot of boiling water to dump it and all of that stuff. Anyway.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:26:40]:
Yay. Cool stuff.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:26:42]:
Well, now that my kids are a little bit older, the instant pot.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:26:46]:
Oh, I'm a big fan.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:26:48]:
Yes.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:26:49]:
So

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:26:52]:
they can make different things. And we've added an air fryer. So my children are very Adept in the kitchen as they've gotten older, and we still have some that are old enough to use those type of equipment, but can still fun for themselves in short periods of time should they need it. But one of the things I prioritize in my family is I think family dinner is super important. And I love sitting down with my family. And I will say it gets harder as they get older to sit down and certainly sit down with all of them. We have a large family and so it makes it more difficult. We have only two of our children do not have outside jobs.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:27:30]:
And so only because they're not old enough. Only because they're not old enough, one of them is chomping at the bit. My 14 year old is like, do you think they would hire me to do the dishes? So working really hard to find that job. Yeah, but so they're a little bit easier when they don't have sports or when they don't have something after school. But we do try and prioritize that as much as we can. So I feel even though they can eat well, I still feel a little bit guilty about missing meals with them because I have so few. Like, we are not eating breakfast together, we're not eating lunch together typically. And so dinner is the meal that we are usually able to best eat together.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:28:15]:
So that is something that. That's important to me. So that. That hurts my heart a little bit.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:28:23]:
Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:28:24]:
But that is something that we're working on. And the good thing is the, the kids know it's important to me. So when I say, hey, we're all here, we're all going to have dinner, I get very little pushback.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:28:35]:
Nice. I just. Can we just for one moment acknowledge that you've been doing this for how long and you're still figuring it out and I appreciate that.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:28:45]:
Yeah. Well, and that is a great point. And the thing is, different seasons in life bring about different needs and different things to work around. So one of the things that I never thought that I would have to worry about would be only because, you know, I had the privilege of not thinking about it was what to do if my partner became disabled. And as you may know, my husband had a stroke about two years ago. And being on call immediately after that, I went on call probably a week after he got home from rehab.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:29:25]:
And.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:29:26]:
And I was super anxious that my client would find out that my husband had a stroke because she was in a profession where she worked daily with people who had had a stroke. And I didn't want her panic thinking like, she knew what I was going through at home and worried about that. So I worked really hard not to share that part of it. I had plenty of support at home, people to take care of the kids, people to help Kevin if he needed it, but worrying about being on call and having that experience of her stressed out about what was going on. And it turned out that a mutual person told her. And so she actually called me up before I went on call and said, oh, my gosh, like, you know, I hear Kevin had a stroke. Like, how can I help you? And that was so sweet of her. But at the same time, I just felt like, oh, you know, you have so much to worry about, and here you are worrying about me.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:30:22]:
So I really, you know, I didn't think about life on call. And, you know, you think about planning for your children and, you know, okay, so my husband can't drive. What if it's during the week and he needs to get to a doctor's appointment or go to therapy? And so trying to find that support for him as well. And so that was a real eye opener because, again, I had the privilege of not having to think about it, and it didn't think about it until it immediately affected me. So that has been something that has opened my eyes to, you know, a different way of looking at it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:30:59]:
Absolutely. And then have you. I know that you have done other jobs while you've been on call. Can you talk? Because I did that as well. Like, I taught at the university. So how. How did you handle that?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:31:13]:
So, yes, I have both gone to school and had jobs which I considered going to school my job. I remember, you know, taking finals and being at a birth. And actually I was writing my professor to explain to him, and this was when I was working on my PhD and so he knew me really well. He was my advisor, and so he knew I wasn't just flaking out. But I remember writing and saying, you know, I'm at a birth. I know the final is in two days, but it's just a heads up. 24 hours later, I'm still at a birth. Just, you know, want a heads up.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:31:51]:
Third day, about an hour before the final, I am still at this birth. And he wrote, he wrote back, you. And he was. He. He was an MD and he wrote back. And he was just joking. And he was like, can't they just do a C section so you can get to the final?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:32:06]:
Not when you're all that tired. That's not a funny joke.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:32:09]:
Well, thankfully, I didn't read It. So the birth did wind up being a C section. And then when I told him that, he was like, I am so sorry. I'm like, honestly, you did not have control over that.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:32:21]:
It was not your fault.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:32:22]:
But he felt really badly after making. And he was just trying to be funny in a not funny kind of way.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:32:30]:
So I.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:32:31]:
But it was just. Was funny. He was horrified that he had said that. And I was like, yeah, we don't joke like that in this profession. Yes.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:32:39]:
You don't manifest that. Definitely not.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:32:43]:
So. But he was, he was understanding. I think the thing is, you know, so if you can make sure you have as much flexibility built into your job as possible, and that is going to look differently depending on where you are. So for example, if it's a 9 to 5 job, that's a little bit harder, you might have paid time off or you might have unpaid time off. You might have a boss that is super flexible. I have worked with a number of doulas who have said, you know, it's great, as long as I'm only doing this, you know, taking a client once a month, my boss is fine with it. They think that, you know, hey, we're contributing to great maternal outcomes. Even people who are not doing anything related to pregnancy, birth, parenting, anything like that.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:33:31]:
And so I'm really glad when people have that situation, other people don't. What if you're a teacher and so maybe you, maybe you only take births in the summer, which is not necessarily what you want to do, but it's definitely easier on your cost schedule. So there are a lot of different ways to work it. I think the best situation is when you have a job where it's a little bit more flexible about when you're there and more about getting the production of your work done.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:33:59]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:33:59]:
So knowing everything's due Friday at 5, but it doesn't matter when you do it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:34:03]:
Right. Well, I think there's also another approach to that. Right. So when I was teaching at a university, I had a partner at a doula. Partner, Right. So we shared a call schedule. And when I was teaching, she was on call. When she was doing her job, she was on call.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:34:21]:
And I mean, so there are different ways to work it for sure.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:34:25]:
Well, and it's, it's going to look differently just depending on what the job is. I will tell you, if you have that flexible job where you don't necessarily have to turn in something every day at 3pm do not procrastinate. Don't think I will go to bed and come back tomorrow because guess what?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:34:45]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:34:46]:
But that's part of your favor.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:34:48]:
That's part of planning. Right. So making sure. I just, you're working ahead, especially if you're on deadline and, and on. I feel like.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:34:57]:
Absolutely.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:34:58]:
Or I mean, yeah, you're on. You're. You just are working ahead. And that's also.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:04]:
Well, and having the plans in place is what makes being on call much easier.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:35:09]:
Absolutely.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:10]:
And most people don't think about it that way.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:35:14]:
What do you mean most people? Sometimes you remind me that I don't think like everyone and I forget that sometimes. Sorry.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:22]:
No, no, it's just so you think, okay, check, I'm ready to go. The birth check. I have a backup. I'm good. And you don't think about making sure that your daughter's softball bag is not in your car. You don't necessarily think about it. So I think the longer that you're a doula, you develop this checklist in your mind of. And sometimes it's a one off thing that's never going to happen again because you plan for it.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:49]:
Right. I never wound up with all the presents again.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:35:53]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:35:53]:
You know, I mean, if your husband has to come to the hospital multiple times to get the softball bag, he's gonna, one of you is gonna learn maybe you shouldn't have the softball bag.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:36:08]:
I swear to you, I have gotten, I've gotten out of bed before at like 3am and my husband will wake up and look at me and go, you don't have the softball bag in your car, do you? Make sure you look before you leave. So I'm not the only one with checklists, apparently.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:36:28]:
Well, and that's my point is like your family comes up with their own checklist. If mom. One of the, one of the struggles that we had was getting paper signed at home. So first it was that my husband wouldn't sign them. Not that he wouldn't. It was just, mom's not home, so the kids wouldn't take it to dad. Right. And then he eventually would sign them and then they would say something important and he would agree that he had seen it and never tell me or not remember, or.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:37:01]:
So I finally started saying, if you sign something that's more than just, you know, you sign the daily notebook or whatever. If you sign something that says like, I will have my child at this location or I will send it bagged lunch this day, please take a photo of it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:37:18]:
Yes.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:37:19]:
Put it in a calendar. Do something to memorialize this information so that I can find it yes.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:37:26]:
Because otherwise it's going to create a. Oh, my gosh, bring me a lunch to school. I have a field trip in an hour situation. I hate that I've definitely gotten that. And you didn't sign up for a bag lunch from school. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:37:41]:
Yes. Or they. If they have a bag lunch. Lunch, it's usually a ham sandwich, and my kids can't eat it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:37:49]:
Right, Exactly. Absolutely.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:37:52]:
So. Yeah.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:37:57]:
How far in advance do you plan out your call schedule, Robin?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:38:02]:
So I take fewer clients now simply because of my training and travel schedule. And so it's a little bit easier for me. I usually have a lot more lead time. And so I like to. You know, I like to have at least three months to start thinking about all of the things that I need to get ready.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:38:26]:
Yeah. Three months.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:38:28]:
Between three months, that's. I mean, more is ideal, but if I have three months, I can do it comfortably. And that includes planning for travel and planning for backup. And planning for backup on backup. My redundant backup.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:38:45]:
So many backups.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:38:46]:
Yeah. And then if I think, you know, Ada has a school play. Okay. So it's three nights. I want to definitely try and get to see it the first night. That way, if I miss it the first night, I can see it the second night. Sort of like that. Procrastinating on work.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:39:01]:
Never schedule yourself for the last play show.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:39:06]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:39:07]:
Because you're gonna miss it. And you could have gone on Thursday, but no, you bought Saturday tickets, and now somebody's in labor.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:39:15]:
Mm. I wish they had contingency tickets sometimes. Like, I wish that was a thing.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:39:21]:
I do find that most people think my job is so cool that I can usually. As long as there's space available, I can usually explain. Yeah. Explain it away. And then people are like, that is so fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:39:40]:
I. I find myself. So I take currently more clients than you, I think. Right. I take more.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:39:47]:
Yes.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:39:49]:
So I find myself planning really, really far in advance. And I find my family doesn't always understand that. Right. So my. Like, my dad wants us to go on a vacation with them. And I'm like, okay, but you need to get on our calendar now. And he was like, but I was thinking next spring. And I was like, yep.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:40:08]:
And I'm already getting clients into February. Dad. Like, what do you want me to do? I need to know when you want this on my calendar. So.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:40:20]:
Well, and that's, you know, I think it's totally fair to say, you know, I am not going to take clients. And some people have a rule. I don't take Any clients due in July? You know, I am just off call in July every year or I am, you know, again, future pacing. I am not going to take clients next year at Christmas time or next year at my birthday time or I'm taking a vacation with the family on this time. And I would encourage you to add days on the front and end of that because we all know vacations are not really vacations.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:40:54]:
Absolutely.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:40:55]:
You got those last few days where you're panicking. You've got those, you know, the mountain

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:41:00]:
of laundry when you get home.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:41:02]:
Yeah, all that stuff. The time I cut it, the closest was I had to take two of my older children to their college, like admitted student day. And I needed to leave the city at 8am and wound up, of course, getting the call beforehand and going to the birth. And I was super excited at 6pM that my client was very dilated and then wound up having the baby at 8:10am oh my goodness. And so it was a beautiful labor. I was so glad I got to be there. But I was like on texting with my backup, like all through the early morning hours.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:41:47]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:41:48]:
You know, because I was like, okay. But I, you know, I knew that, okay, like 8, 10, I can do this. And so actually I left at 8:10. The baby was born around 7:30. And I even then said, you know, do you want me to bring the backup in to help you this immediate postpartum? And.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:42:05]:
Right.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:42:06]:
She was good, but it was just. And she was glad. And we were both super glad I could be there. I mean, she was just really relieved that I stayed. She thought I was, you know, and she understood. But. And she knew, she hired me. Like I told her up front, like,

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:42:20]:
hard deadline, hard deadline.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:42:22]:
Like I am leaving town, you know, this date and I won't be back until this date. So, you know, and it was, I want to say it was like midway through her 41st week that this wound up being. And of course, nobody ever anticipates they're going to be the one who goes to 41.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:42:39]:
Oh, yes, the optimism in the beginning.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:42:41]:
Yes. So, you know, it seemed like a good plan for her. And I just said, so, you know, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, you'll have my backup.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:42:49]:
Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:42:50]:
And she agreed to that.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:42:51]:
And I find honestly being so honest with your clients about schedules and about, you know, hard things, like I'm leaving town, I have plane tickets and those kinds of things. I think it really is nice. It's, it's a good thing to be really open and honest about about plans like that. Not about, you know, maybe my husband had a stroke. I mean, that's something.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:43:14]:
Well, and here's the thing. I think that. I think it becomes something that we build up in our mind as childbirth professionals. Like, oh, they're going to be anxious if I tell them about this. Or, you know, even the. Even in the interest instance of the stroke, she was fine. Like, she's.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:43:32]:
She.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:43:32]:
She knew that if I said it was taken care of, it was taken care of. And so that was more my insecurity about probably just taking care of my husband. I had to doula thing down.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:43:44]:
Right, right. Absolutely.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:43:47]:
You know, and just thinking and you know, honestly, sometimes birth, like, births like that just work out, you know, Got the call early in the morning. It was pretty fast labor, you know, and I wound up home before 10am and so nobody's life was severely impacted. And so for me, it was. In that instance, it was really nice. Like, I thought, okay, maybe I can do this. Maybe I can still be a doula. And so it was. It was really nice.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:44:16]:
Excellent.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:44:17]:
Yeah. But definitely plan for time off. You need it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:44:21]:
Oh, my gosh, you need it so bad.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:44:22]:
And if you don't plan it, your schedule gets overwhelmed before you can even think about it.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:44:28]:
I was going to say that, like, a lack of planning is not a good thing to do because I've ended up with like, oops, oh, no. I have more clients than I meant to, and that's that. It's fine. But it just creates stress and. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:44:47]:
So, class, your homework today is to take out your calendar and look 9 to 12 months in advance and block out even a weekend for you.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:44:59]:
Absolutely. That's a great plan. I love it.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:45:04]:
Okay, so as we're wrapping up here, Hillary, I have a question for you.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:45:07]:
Okay, what is it?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:45:09]:
Would you rather create history or delete it?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:45:14]:
Oh, create it. That was easy.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:45:18]:
Really?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:45:20]:
I'll tell you why. Because I am a sci fi fan. Do you know this about me?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:45:25]:
Yes, I do.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:45:26]:
Bringing on my real geekdom. And I just do not feel like deleting history is a good plan with regards to, like, unintended consequences. Future consequences. I've seen too many sci fi things. Right. If you delete, yeah, I don't know, Mussolini from history, then, you know, who knows? Maybe you don't. I was trying to think of something Italian. I'm.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:45:54]:
I'm lost. Sorry. But yeah, no, I think unintended consequences from deleting history. And I think creating history, I mean, it's good.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:46:05]:
So interestingly, one of the things I was reading about. This question says that somebody who chooses to create history is the more optimistic person. Is that a word that you would use to describe you?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:46:22]:
I'm not sure I would. I think I'm more pragmatist than optimist, but I do try to be optimistic. I don't know. Would you describe me as optimistic?

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:46:35]:
Actually, I would describe you as more optimistic than you think you are. Okay.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:46:41]:
I'm also hyper self critical, so that's probably my problem. Really? So.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:46:49]:
Well, but being hyper critical is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's not constant. And I think we use the word critical to think more of criticism, but it just means taking a closer look, right?

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:47:05]:
Self reflection is good. Criticism is not necessarily a good thing. Therapy. Yay. Therapy is a good thing. Sorry. I know. I feel like I say this every podcast, but I think therapy is a great thing.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:47:18]:
So.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:47:19]:
Yeah. Well, I want to take a minute today while we're doing this podcast because I've got a really special shout out. I am super excited because Adriana Lozada from Birthful podcast just celebrated over 2 million downloads.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:47:40]:
Way to go.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:47:41]:
That is amazing. So if you have not checked out her podcast@birthful.com it is pretty amazing. So she's an amazing person. It's an amazing podcast. She's got some great stories, she's got some great people. We will definitely link to that in the show notes. But congratulations. Thank you for setting the bar so high for all of the birth geeks and everyone out there.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:48:11]:
We are just super excited for you. So please make sure that you check it out birthful.com the world is a

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:48:19]:
better place because Adriana is in it. So absolutely, I'm a fan. Special thanks to Victoria Wilson, who was the first birth geek to leave us a voicemail about her birth story. Here she is.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:48:35]:
Hi, birth geeks, this is Victoria Wilson. I was super intrigued to see how you set up your call us number. So that's what I'm doing. Yeah. One little part that I do think is really funny with my third birth, it was a pretty. I've heard that third babies are really wild. Your third birth can be really wild and predictable. That was true for me at least.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:48:59]:
And it was just progressing really fast. So my first two were my biggest. They took a little meandering time to get here, you know, 12 hours for one and 20 for the other. And then so my surge was just very fast and it was going so fast that I didn't even realize what was happening. So it Was just funny to me that even as a doula, doula, you know, at that point, I had been. Had some good experiences as a doula and kind of knew what I was looking at in birth. I, you know, thought I was getting ready to push. And then a nurse did check me and she found me to only be 5 centimeters at that point.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:37]:
So of course I was a little discouraged, very discouraged. And I went back in the tub. And then, then again I just started pushing. You know, it's like, this only feels good to push. And then of course, I felt like I needed to go to the bathroom. So I told my birth team. I was like, well, it can't beat the baby yet. I just really have to poop.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:49:57]:
And so I was like pushing on a toilet. Obviously, this happened very rapidly. I went from like that 5 centimeter check to a baby in my arms in 45 minutes. But I was just insistent to my team, my husband and my duo, like, no, no, it's not the baby yet. I really do just have to push. And I'm like very clearly grunting and pushing with a lot of effort, insisting to them that, no, it's not the baby, it can't be the baby. So just funny little life lesson that even doulas can get caught in their own heads. And we have to be really careful to guard that.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:50:36]:
I think just following your body. I definitely maybe want to learn more about the people who kind of recommends never doing a cervical check, just watching the mom's behavior to kind of see what the baby is. All that good stuff. I guess I do see those benefits sometimes with checks, perhaps. But yeah, this definitely showed me that dilation is just a number. You should follow your body. It's a better picture of what's happening to you. And anytime you think it's poop, it's never poop.

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:51:05]:
That was all. Have a good day, you guys.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:51:10]:
Thanks, Victoria. You are so right. Each birth teaches us something new. You too can leave us a voicemail and be featured on the podcast. If you call us at 502-314-2401, we would love to hear from you, especially if you have special tips for surviving life on call. We are so glad you joined us for this episode of the Birth Geeks podcast. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe wherever you listen to us. And tell your favorite birth geek in your life about us.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:51:41]:
We like to be social, so be sure to use our hashtags, which are

Dr. Robin Elise Weiss [00:51:46]:
Ask the Birthgeeks, BirthgeeksUnite.

Dr. Hillary Melchiors [00:51:50]:
We'll be back with a new episode in two weeks later Geeks the Birth Geeks upgrading the conversation and helping you renew your professional moxie.